[631twentyeighteye]

I'd enjoy true ITB's if there were kit or a way to make them more user friendly bolt on.

As well as a tune to compliment it. all though i know AA said they'd love to tune ITB's.

[hassmaschine]

Why do you want itbs.. We dont need a throttle at all!

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

Why do you want itbs.. We dont need a throttle at all!

I want it to be as simple as possible Hass.

[hassmaschine]

Itbs on an N52 means running full standalone and ditching valvetronic, head machining etc. That is not simple.

We can have something even better because we dont need throttles at all. All we really need are trumpets and an airbox.

[justpete]

I've been told the stock DME can't be used if Valvetronic is locked open so a TB throttle cable could be used so ITBs would need a Motec ECU or the like meaning the rest of the car no longer works.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

You know, it's just runners functioning like ITBs, if there was a larger plenum and a snorkel hooked to the TB/MAF, this would be a Plug and play (plus tuning) affair. Then again, AA got close to those numbers with the 3 stage and stock exhaust.

Its not running a tb or a maf. They are not needed. All it really needs is an airbox & filter. I know i know, i sound like a broken record..

You could do the same thing by cutting up an N52 manifold. Theres nothing special about the N54.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

Itbs on an N52 means running full standalone and ditching valvetronic, head machining etc. That is not simple.

We can have something even better because we dont need throttles at all. All we really need are trumpets and an airbox.

And it's really really tempting for a track car, sounds really cool.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by rjahl

Here you go,

I created a BIN from the S7581341.ODA file.

I'd like to see the actual dyno power curve from this motor.

Richard

Cool I'll check it out. I nearly had a heart attack yesterday, I thought I had lost my thumb drive with all of my files on it. I have backups of most of it but it's spread out all over the place. Luckily I found it!

On all the tunes I've seen there's a parameter for maximum intake cam timing and it's always set to 120 degrees (I think there's a total adjustment range of 75 degrees, so the minimum would be 55 degrees). I wonder if it's just a matter of changing those targets enabling a bit more physical adjustment. it would definitely benefit higher RPM speed, and likely allow a higher redline before VE falls off the cliff.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

Its not running a tb or a maf. They are not needed. All it really needs is an airbox & filter. I know i know, i sound like a broken record..

You could do the same thing by cutting up an N52 manifold. Theres nothing special about the N54.

I want whatever is easiest to do, and keeps the car driving like stock. I don't want to fabricate anything, so if I can buy a off the shelf solution, I'm ok with that.

[hassmaschine]

Basically the thing that is needed would be a bolt on manifold & plenum. But even if something like that were made, it would be expensive. Something along the lines of a replica CSL airbox for the E46 M3 - $2-3k.

Thus the N54 intake. It's cheap although not really perfect since there's no plenum or filter. You could fab that yourself but it's never going to be bolt-on.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

Basically the thing that is needed would be a bolt on manifold & plenum. But even if something like that were made, it would be expensive. Something along the lines of a replica CSL airbox for the E46 M3 - $2-3k.

Thus the N54 intake. It's cheap although not really perfect since there's no plenum or filter. You could fab that yourself but it's never going to be bolt-on.

Yeah, that's my point.

A N54 manifold would bolt up, you could use the same TB, MAF, intake plumbing, and an off the shelf tune. I don't want to fabricate an airbox, or pay 4k. I just want an easy bolt on solution...and supposedly it makes sven more power than the 3 stage even without headers - that's why it's appealing.

Those numbers are nice, but so is this:



(They say it's a 3 stage, but no dropoff? Hmmm...)


Or this.

That's over 95% of the power without hacking everything up and requiring 2k in fabrication. Again more power is nice, but at what cost?

[hassmaschine]

yeah I don't think it makes sense unless you DIY. And I'd expect a torque loss at low RPM.

What drop off are you talking about? the typical "wall" at redline? that is part of the tune so it should be possible to flatten it out. VE will still drop off at some point but the stock tune makes it far worse than it needs to be.

also, at least some of the power gain is from ditching the TB & MAF, neither of which are really required since the DME controls VE almost directly through vanos & valvetronic.

I have access to a 3D printer at the tech school, my idea is to make some sort of adapter for a CSL replica airbox to bolt up to the N52 head. But that's more of my own personal preference, and I really want it for the sound..

BTW, rjahl, that 2.5si tune is really aggressive. I ended up copying parts of it into my own tune to see what it does. The ignition timing is even more advanced than the aftermarket tunes I've seen, and the intake vanos tuning is way more aggressive. The disa transitions are also quite different, as are the sport switch settings. I'd like to see a dyno of one!

the max intake retard parameter is still set the same as the other cars I've seen (122, not 120), but still with it set at 125 in the maps I want to try it. It would be easy to verify by looking at the actual vanos position vs the target in Testo.

[andrey_gta]

great stuff in here. M50 manifold style

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

yeah I don't think it makes sense unless you DIY. And I'd expect a torque loss at low RPM.

What drop off are you talking about? the typical "wall" at redline? that is part of the tune so it should be possible to flatten it out. VE will still drop off at some point but the stock tune makes it far worse than it needs to be.

also, at least some of the power gain is from ditching the TB & MAF, neither of which are really required since the DME controls VE almost directly through vanos & valvetronic.

I have access to a 3D printer at the tech school, my idea is to make some sort of adapter for a CSL replica airbox to bolt up to the N52 head. But that's more of my own personal preference, and I really want it for the sound..

BTW, rjahl, that 2.5si tune is really aggressive. I ended up copying parts of it into my own tune to see what it does. The ignition timing is even more advanced than the aftermarket tunes I've seen, and the intake vanos tuning is way more aggressive. The disa transitions are also quite different, as are the sport switch settings. I'd like to see a dyno of one!

the max intake retard parameter is still set the same as the other cars I've seen (122, not 120), but still with it set at 125 in the maps I want to try it. It would be easy to verify by looking at the actual vanos position vs the target in Testo.

Ok let me clarify, because I think you have me mixed up:

I want More power
I want streetable power
I want minimal/no fabrication/custom work.

That's why I like the idea of using the N54 manifold - yes I understand there will be losses, but how much, and how much of a gain are we talking?

With something like the manifold, a off the shelf tune solution could work for anyone who wanted to plug and play, and go back to stock anytime. Hacking up the single stage seems easy enough, hashing out the fine details is where majority of the work comes in. Not about that life in my daily.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Ok let me clarify, because I think you have me mixed up:

I want More power
I want streetable power
I want minimal/no fabrication/custom work.

That's why I like the idea of using the N54 manifold - yes I understand there will be losses, but how much, and how much of a gain are we talking?

With something like the manifold, a off the shelf tune solution could work for anyone who wanted to plug and play, and go back to stock anytime. Hacking up the single stage seems easy enough, hashing out the fine details is where majority of the work comes in. Not about that life in my daily.

I don't know those answers - BPC probably does, since they've done it. But I understand what you mean - that's why I intend to leave my 330i basically stock except for tuning.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

I don't know those answers - BPC probably does, since they've done it. But I understand what you mean - that's why I intend to leave my 330i basically stock except for tuning.

Guess we have to ask.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

I don't know those answers - BPC probably does, since they've done it. But I understand what you mean - that's why I intend to leave my 330i basically stock except for tuning.

One more question Hass, do you think the High RPM drop off (after 6500rpm) is because the DISA is trying to close, or the catalyst protection is still built in?

[hassmaschine]

it's both of those, plus the "soft" limiter.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

it's both of those, plus the "soft" limiter.

Wait, so on that 128i dyno above, are you saying they didn't tune it right?

[hassmaschine]

I don't know, but it certainly looks like it's hitting the "4th" disa stage which closes the flap at 6900rpm.

[kobeballer96]

New video is up!!!! They uploaded two hours ago on the bimmer performance page on Facebook. On the rollers going all the way to 8k on the dyno!!!!!!!

[chris82]

Originally Posted by kobeballer96

New video is up!!!! They uploaded two hours ago on the bimmer performance page on Facebook. On the rollers going all the way to 8k on the dyno!!!!!!!

So many rpm!