[fackamato]

edit: Ordered the Helix DSP


Hi all

I don't want to replace the HU in my E92 just yet as the only available option seems to be the Dynavin N6 and that's like 800 dollars here in EU.

Looking at other options there are DSP's out there of various configurations. I'm wondering which one I should get? My goal would be:

* Stock HU
* Some DSP with or without high level input (I have a LOC already), with at least 4 stereo RCA out (front, front subs, rear, sub)
* 4-6 channel amp for front/rear doors + under seat subs
* Main sub I've covered already

So HU > (LOC) > DSP > amps > speakers. I've found these ones, are they any good or can I do better?

1) Soundstream Harmony
2) MiniDSP (I have this already, but not in the car. Also it's only got 4x RCA outputs)
3) http://eu.jbl.com/product-support-detail-eu/ms-8.html
4) Anything else?

Thanks

[mathematics]

which audio do you have? what are you doing for amplification? stock speakers?

[fackamato]

Originally Posted by mathematics

which audio do you have? what are you doing for amplification? stock speakers?

Hey,

I've the Base/Stereo, some after market door speakers and a sub I'm ready to wire in and EQ, in the trunk (with amp). It's a Sundown X-12 powered via SA D1200. I didn't put in the door speakers myself so I'm not sure of the brand.

I've yet to decide on door/under seat sub amplification. Either a 6 channel amp or a 4 channel amp for doors + a 2 channel amp for the subs (they're still stock so won't need much)

edit: This might be a good enough amp for the front? Pioneer GM-D8604 Class-D 4 Channel, it does have a 80A fuse which seems a lot for 4x100W RMS

[fackamato]

The "problem" with the Soundstream harmony is that while you can enter timing delay and cross overs etc, how do you get those values? Sure you can measure the frequency response/domain with Room EQ Wizard (which I've done) but I'm not sure how to export the resulting EQ into those formats. Usually they're exported to DX2496 / MiniDSP / other home theatre DSP's.

[csu87]

PPI DEQ.8 is a pretty solid DSP and is about $500

Im running one with my stock HU to a pair of IA3.4s for midrange and tweeters and an IA10.1 to a sundown SA-10.

The PPI DEQ.8 is software is very user friendly and easy to get everything dialed in if you know even a little about audio.

The PPI DSP88R (Same as the Soundstream Harmony but a tad cheaper) is also pretty good. Not as many features and the software is more of a watered down version of the DEQ8, but you can find these for $200

Both are MiniDSP based as well so if you have used that before, than these will be no problem.

and the JBL MS-8, POS

[csu87]

Originally Posted by fackamato

The "problem" with the Soundstream harmony is that while you can enter timing delay and cross overs etc, how do you get those values? Sure you can measure the frequency response/domain with Room EQ Wizard (which I've done) but I'm not sure how to export the resulting EQ into those formats. Usually they're exported to DX2496 / MiniDSP / other home theatre DSP's.

That is where you just have to put in the time to adjust everything until it is right for you. I spent 2-3 hrs fine tuning my dsp to get it to a point that works perfect for me and my taste.

For frequency cross overs, i usually start at what the speaker manufacturer recommends and adjust up or down according to how it sounds.

For timing, I start at 0 and adjust until it is blended where I want or staged where I want. For most installs and people, timing at 0 is good enough.

[ctuna]

Helix DSP82, P six DSP or Mosconi 120.4 DSP
these are amp processor combo's not cheap but
pretty much a top choice for sound quality.
You need speakers that will take the power and use it .
Monster audio has some Gladen/Mosconi kits that are
suppose to be excellent.


Base System Upgrades
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=445266
http://www.monsteraudiodesign.co.uk/
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=634957
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1003810
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=822366
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...1#post16679904
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=581379
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=451941
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=540954
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ghlight=Dotech
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=495855
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=494299
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...morel-jbl.html
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...1#post16679904
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ht=amp+upgrade
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=550771

P six DSP is the new hot item.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1124312
If you don't want to spend money on DSP then find some way to reprogram the
head unit to hi fi output .

[fackamato]

Thanks for all the replies. It looks like here in Europe I can only get a hold of

soundstream harmony 250 euro http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Soundstream-H...item2ed8689532

JL Audio CL441DSP 250 euro http://www.ebay.ie/itm/JL-AUDIO-CL44...item5d5830e769

I can't find the Alpine PXE H660 nor the Helix P-DSP for sale in Europe unfortunately. Which one of the above do you recommend? I have experience with MiniDSP as I have one in use with my stereo at home.

Side question, when you reprogram from base to HiFi:

a) High level outputs are now low level outputs (but the cables remain the same, i.e. just change plugs to RCA)
b) The EQ curve is gone, output is "flat"
c) "Dong" sounds remain, played through rear speakers??
d) PDC works as normal, played through.. rear speakers?
e) That's it - just hook up amps after recode to Hifi and you're done?

Thank you

[ctuna]

Helix is a German product.
Mosconi is Italian.

http://www.audiotec-fischer.de/lng/en/helix-dsp.html

http://www.monsteraudiodesign.co.uk/

[csu87]

You should be able to get ahold of most of the ones listed since a lot of online shops ship worldwide

Of those 2 listed, the soundstream

[fackamato]

I read the soundstream manual and it's got high level inputs, would it work OK with low level inputs if I recode from Base to Hifi? Or will that cause a problem?

Any reason I shouldn't go with the soundstream?

Thanks

edit: OK so I nkow found the Helix P-DSP. Would it be better over the soundstream? I think the choice is down to these 2 now.

[csu87]

not sure about the inputs, i just ran a LOC to my DSP

As far as the Helix vs the Soundstream, the Helix you are able to do a little bit more with a little more ease, but the Soundstream is pretty similar. You can find both of their softwares online and download them prior to buying. Then mess around with the software and see which you like better to use.

Helix - http://www.helixhifi.com/downloads/downloads.asp
Soundstream - http://soundstream.com/store/harmony.html/

Also, the Helix P-DSP is the old version. Find the newer Helix DSP 8-Channel. And if you are willing to pay $700 for the Helix, then try out the Soundstream Synthesis. Best bang for your buck.

[fackamato]

Originally Posted by csu87

not sure about the inputs, i just ran a LOC to my DSP

As far as the Helix vs the Soundstream, the Helix you are able to do a little bit more with a little more ease, but the Soundstream is pretty similar. You can find both of their softwares online and download them prior to buying. Then mess around with the software and see which you like better to use.

Helix - http://www.helixhifi.com/downloads/downloads.asp
Soundstream - http://soundstream.com/store/harmony.html/

Also, the Helix P-DSP is the old version. Find the newer Helix DSP 8-Channel. And if you are willing to pay $700 for the Helix, then try out the Soundstream Synthesis. Best bang for your buck.

Thanks very much you've been a great help. I didn't know P-DSP was the old version.

Last question for now... the HU (base or HiFi) only has 4 channels out, right? FL, FR, RL, RR. The underfloor speakers are wired with the fronts.

When you recode base to HiFi that's still the case? Basically, a DSP with 4 inputs (FL, FR, RL, RR) will be enough for the E90/92 HU, as the underfloor subs don't have separate outputs from the HU?

Thanks again

[csu87]

yes 4 inputs is enough. And even 2 inputs is enough. FR and FL is really all you need. They are full range. Just wont be able to fade front to back, but with the DSP, you shouldnt need to do that.

When you go into the DSP software, you will then break it out how you want it. I only used 2 inputs (FR/FL) when I set mine up.

I even only used FR/FL when I was just running my amps active without a DSP and split those 2 inputs into 8 channels.

[fackamato]

Originally Posted by csu87

yes 4 inputs is enough. And even 2 inputs is enough. FR and FL is really all you need. They are full range. Just wont be able to fade front to back, but with the DSP, you shouldnt need to do that.

When you go into the DSP software, you will then break it out how you want it. I only used 2 inputs (FR/FL) when I set mine up.

I even only used FR/FL when I was just running my amps active without a DSP and split those 2 inputs into 8 channels.

Thanks. On my todo list I now have:

1) recode to HiFi
2) Find Synthesis in Europe, if not, get the Harmony or Helix DSP (not the P-DSP)
3) Buy speaker cables for fronts, rears, underseat woofers
4) Probably need a distribution block + fuses for the amp + DSP + sub amp

[martinblair]

P-Six DSP http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1124312

[ctuna]

1) recode to HiFi
If you recode to Hi Fi you don't have to have a Processor though
it can be nice for fine tuning.
2) Find Synthesis in Europe, if not, get the Harmony or Helix DSP (not the P-DSP)
See above
3) Buy speaker cables for fronts, rears, underseat woofers
You don't need to do new speaker cables except where there missing
or where the amperage goes over 150 watts a Technic Harness is recommended
for hooking things up.
4) Probably need a distribution block + fuses for the amp + DSP + sub amp
That would make it nice.

[fackamato]

I ended up with the Helix DSP (not P-DSP). I'm going to try to find someone who can recode to HiFi (can't do it myself).

I'll post a build thread when I've the parts...