Helix or Alpine PXA-H800?

///Mangler · 05-09-2014, 02:24 PM

Which processor is the better fit for E90 with EPS? How good is the auto tune in the Alpine? will it auto tune while moving?

Plans are:

Helix or Alpine with optical input from MOST-bus ($700)
JL Audio 600/6 with Technic harness out to OEM wiring to speaker locations ($600)
Focal separates up front ($430)
remove HF drivers from rear doors and rear deck, turn off center
MB quart under seat band pass ($219)
JL 10-W3-4 sub in musicar enclosure ($225)

Wiring and installation by me.

Any advice on anything? Looking for SQ at 80mph as I live on the interstate 20hours a week.

T

cdgatti · 05-09-2014, 03:02 PM

I don't think you can go from the most loop to either processor. Will have to use something like the mobridge.

ctuna · 05-09-2014, 03:44 PM

L7 or EPS is hard to modify.
If you really want to and don't want to reprogram to Hi Fi
the alternative is the mobridge DA-2 preamp. Either soulution means
you need to ditch the EPS amp and put in all new amps and
some speakers to your taste.

The optical signal out of the BMW Head Units is not a standard
format the only thing that will understand and translate it to analog
preouts is the Mobridge Da-2

The DA-1 was a BMW to toslink translator

Do not bypass the underseats they provide important midrange frequencys.(Jehnerts or German Mastros are
the best under seats) I would go with Morels for the front doors over Focals.

Read the Audio Build thread about L7 modification as the same applys to it as the EPS but even more so .

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641323

///Mangler · 05-09-2014, 05:48 PM

I've read all those threads. I am replacing everything (speakers and amps) and just want to know the best way to get a clean un-processed signal. I will look into the mobridge again but I thought it was discontinued or something.

Why the morels over the focals? I used to have Utopias and loved the sound. This eps is a joke. No separation at all, just muddled harshness.

I never said I was getting rid of the under seat subs. They are going to be 80-250 and the doors will be 250 > I don't know yet. The W3 will be 100 and down.

Not sure how the cabin gain is going to be or if there will be issues there. I had a very high end system in an E36 and the modes the cabin had were aweful. Leaning back a little it sounded perfect and leaning up on the wheel it sounded great. At normal seating position it was dead. I tried everything and even got consultation from Mr Clark himself to no avail. Really odd. Never got it worked out.

T

ctuna · 05-09-2014, 06:26 PM

kaigoss69 · 05-09-2014, 06:31 PM

Sub will sound boomy unless you cut if off below 80Hz. Also, door mids should be selected such that they can play to 150Hz, at minimum. You can cross at 200, but any point above that it will pull the stage down. The Morel Hybrids can do 100Hz.

Focal KRS-100 (if that's what you selected) are a tad harsh and they lack on the low end. Also look at the MB Quart QM200.3, they get excellent reviews and are a steal for 500 at BB. Not sure though how good the mids are.

///Mangler · 05-09-2014, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctuna

I don't have L7. It's individual EPS in E90 M3.

My wife's X5 sounds outstanding compared to the EPS in the M3. Such a crime really.

Anyway, I'll keep reading and searching. Looks like there are many thresholds old SQ like anything else.

T

///Mangler · 05-09-2014, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

Sub will sound boomy unless you cut if off below 80Hz. Also, door mids should be selected such that they can play to 150Hz, at minimum. You can cross at 200, but any point above that it will pull the stage down. The Morel Hybrids can do 100Hz.

Focal KRS-100 (if that's what you selected) are a tad harsh and they lack on the low end. Also look at the MB Quart QM200.3, they get excellent reviews and are a steal for 500 at BB. Not sure though how good the mids are.

Depends. If I use a less aggressive slope I don't think it will be too bad. I'll have the liberty to set it wherever it integrates into the music I like.

These are the Focals

http://www.focal.com/en/58-plug-play-

According to the specs it plays down to 85hz at -3db but I find that hard to believe.

Anyone ever install larger door drivers? 5-1/4? 6.5? There are some shallow high end mid drivers out there that might fit. I don't mind cutting the door to get good response.

T

ctuna · 05-09-2014, 09:16 PM

EPS is the system beyond L7 that nobody has.
Are you sure you properly identified the system.

The 4 levels of system in order of cost are
the Base or Stereo system.
The Hi Fi system
the L7 system
and the EPS= 16 speakers, digital amp Hint: look inboard of the mirrors at the A pillar...tweeters? Yes & Center speaker in Dash: Yes? AND See through speaker grilles with yellow speaker cones --> Individual Audio
This system is a 2000 dollar option are you sure that is what
you have? Its built of the same architecture as the L7 with better components. The same rules apply to modifying it as the L7 .

Most all the answers to the questions you are asking are contained in this thread.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641323

///Mangler · 05-09-2014, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctuna

EPS is the system beyond L7 that nobody has.
Are you sure you properly identified the system.

The 4 levels of system in oreder of cost are
the Base or Stereo system.
The Hi Fi system
the L7 system
and the EPS= 16 speakers, digital amp Hint: look inboard of the mirrors at the A pillar...tweeters? Yes & Center speaker in Dash: Yes? AND See through speaker grilles with yellow speaker cones --> Individual Audio
This system is a 2000 dollar option are you sure that is what
you have? Its built of the same architecture as the L7 with better components.

Most all the answers to the questions you are asking are contained in this thread.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641323

Yes I have EPS in my E90 M3. It sounds like shit. It is harsh as hell and has no punch.

T

JazStar740 · 05-09-2014, 09:32 PM

Just a question.....

Why would you spend the money for a surround sound processor (Alpine PXA-H800) and delete your center channel? Just looking to get reasoning behind this, I used the Alpine PXA-H701 in one of my previous system setups where I hated to set it up with a phantom center but it was and amazing sounding device.

///Mangler · 05-09-2014, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazStar740

Just a question.....

Why would you spend the money for a surround sound processor (Alpine PXA-H800) and delete your center channel? Just looking to get reasoning behind this, I used the Alpine PXA-H701 in one of my previous system setups where I hated to set it up with a phantom center but it was and amazing sounding device.

For the tuning of a proper front imaging/soundstage. A center speaker is not needed in a car for proper imaging. It pulls the sound back towards the interior instead of keeping it out over the hood.

Ideally I should build some door pods with 6.5's down front with 5-1-4's where the 4's are and have some custom enclosures built under the seats in the floor for 10's. This is a little too extreme though so I'll have to stick with OEM placements.

I want the alpine because it has auto tuning presets that I can set while moving. Tuning a car in the driveway stationary is useless.

T

ctuna · 05-09-2014, 10:56 PM

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=980746

JazStar740 · 05-10-2014, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///Mangler

For the tuning of a proper front imaging/soundstage. A center speaker is not needed in a car for proper imaging. It pulls the sound back towards the interior instead of keeping it out over the hood.

Ideally I should build some door pods with 6.5's down front with 5-1-4's where the 4's are and have some custom enclosures built under the seats in the floor for 10's. This is a little too extreme though so I'll have to stick with OEM placements.

I want the alpine because it has auto tuning presets that I can set while moving. Tuning a car in the driveway stationary is useless.

T

Thanks for your point of view on this!!!

snaimpally · 05-12-2014, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///Mangler

Which processor is the better fit for E90 with EPS? How good is the auto tune in the Alpine? will it auto tune while moving?

Plans are:

Helix or Alpine with optical input from MOST-bus ($700)
JL Audio 600/6 with Technic harness out to OEM wiring to speaker locations ($600)
Focal separates up front ($430)
remove HF drivers from rear doors and rear deck, turn off center
MB quart under seat band pass ($219)
JL 10-W3-4 sub in musicar enclosure ($225)

Wiring and installation by me.

Any advice on anything? Looking for SQ at 80mph as I live on the interstate 20hours a week.

T

I'd suggest Mobridge + Helix DSP (or Mosconi 6to8, Arc PS8, etc.) over Alpine.

///Mangler · 05-22-2014, 03:34 PM

I got everything ready to go and just have a couple questions before I hook everything up and troubleshoot for an hour.

So the MOST connector that is going into the EPS amp can be plugged into the DA-2 directly?

SO.... HU MOST-bus>DA-2>Helix>600/6>speakers.

Just want to make sure I don't need to intercept the most bus anywhere else for the DA-2.

Anyone know the part numbers for the battery distribution block input connectors? I would rather use that than go to the post.

For now I will just be using the 600/6 to the stock speakers and new MB quart undersea subs and a 10w3 in the trunk.

T

05-09-2014, 02:24 PM	#1
///Mangler Captain 334 Rep 817 Posts Drives: E30 M3 Darth Vader Trackcar Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: SEC iTrader: (1) Garage List 2000 E39 M5 [9.00]	Helix or Alpine PXA-H800? Which processor is the better fit for E90 with EPS? How good is the auto tune in the Alpine? will it auto tune while moving? Plans are: Helix or Alpine with optical input from MOST-bus ($700) JL Audio 600/6 with Technic harness out to OEM wiring to speaker locations ($600) Focal separates up front ($430) remove HF drivers from rear doors and rear deck, turn off center MB quart under seat band pass ($219) JL 10-W3-4 sub in musicar enclosure ($225) Wiring and installation by me. Any advice on anything? Looking for SQ at 80mph as I live on the interstate 20hours a week. T
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05-09-2014, 03:02 PM	#2
cdgatti Colonel 255 Rep 2,547 Posts Drives: e90 328i Join Date: May 2011 Location: KY iTrader: (4)	I don't think you can go from the most loop to either processor. Will have to use something like the mobridge.
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05-09-2014, 03:44 PM	#3
ctuna Lieutenant General 1911 Rep 13,103 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	L7 or EPS is hard to modify. L7 or EPS is hard to modify. If you really want to and don't want to reprogram to Hi Fi the alternative is the mobridge DA-2 preamp. Either soulution means you need to ditch the EPS amp and put in all new amps and some speakers to your taste. The optical signal out of the BMW Head Units is not a standard format the only thing that will understand and translate it to analog preouts is the Mobridge Da-2 The DA-1 was a BMW to toslink translator Do not bypass the underseats they provide important midrange frequencys.(Jehnerts or German Mastros are the best under seats) I would go with Morels for the front doors over Focals. Read the Audio Build thread about L7 modification as the same applys to it as the EPS but even more so . http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641323 Last edited by ctuna; 05-09-2014 at 03:52 PM..
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05-09-2014, 05:48 PM	#4
///Mangler Captain 334 Rep 817 Posts Drives: E30 M3 Darth Vader Trackcar Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: SEC iTrader: (1) Garage List 2000 E39 M5 [9.00]	I've read all those threads. I am replacing everything (speakers and amps) and just want to know the best way to get a clean un-processed signal. I will look into the mobridge again but I thought it was discontinued or something. Why the morels over the focals? I used to have Utopias and loved the sound. This eps is a joke. No separation at all, just muddled harshness. I never said I was getting rid of the under seat subs. They are going to be 80-250 and the doors will be 250 > I don't know yet. The W3 will be 100 and down. Not sure how the cabin gain is going to be or if there will be issues there. I had a very high end system in an E36 and the modes the cabin had were aweful. Leaning back a little it sounded perfect and leaning up on the wheel it sounded great. At normal seating position it was dead. I tried everything and even got consultation from Mr Clark himself to no avail. Really odd. Never got it worked out. T
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05-09-2014, 06:26 PM	#5
ctuna Lieutenant General 1911 Rep 13,103 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	If you can recode to Hi Fi . If you can recode to Hi Fi . Then you can do what you started out to do. But the OEM amp has to go and I thought that was a pretty good system though few have it and there are few comments on it here. Some people turn off the L7 processing to make things sound better. Morels are known be less harsh and play lower in a 4 inch speaker . There may be fitment issues if you have a coupe. I like this following setup. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=833581 Some other stuff to look through. Best System examples http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=445266 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=822366 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=826683 http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=634957 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ight=processor http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=727760 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ighlight=level http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=590420 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=581379 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=451941 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=540954 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324214 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=495855 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...hlight=technic http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ghlight=Dotech http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...&highlight=BSW http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...morel-jbl.html http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=494299 http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=550771 http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=540446 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=532585 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ht=amp+upgrade http://www.bilstereoforum.se/showthread.php?t=2356 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...hlight=level+3 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=833581 http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=443043 http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...creations.html I don't see why you would want to autocal a processor while driving . I thought the better ones have several sets of calibrations or sound stages you can select on the fly. Last edited by ctuna; 05-09-2014 at 06:43 PM..
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05-09-2014, 06:31 PM	#6
kaigoss69 Brigadier General 300 Rep 3,969 Posts Drives: '08 335i Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: JAX iTrader: (6)	Sub will sound boomy unless you cut if off below 80Hz. Also, door mids should be selected such that they can play to 150Hz, at minimum. You can cross at 200, but any point above that it will pull the stage down. The Morel Hybrids can do 100Hz. Focal KRS-100 (if that's what you selected) are a tad harsh and they lack on the low end. Also look at the MB Quart QM200.3, they get excellent reviews and are a steal for 500 at BB. Not sure though how good the mids are. __________________ Mobridge DA2 > JBL MS-8 > ARC XDi 600/4 > JBL Gti 408 Mids & Vifa OT19 Tweeters; PG Ti2 1600.5 > Morel HCW-10 & IDMax 15
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05-09-2014, 09:16 PM	#9
ctuna Lieutenant General 1911 Rep 13,103 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	EPS is the system beyond L7 that nobody has EPS is the system beyond L7 that nobody has. Are you sure you properly identified the system. The 4 levels of system in order of cost are the Base or Stereo system. The Hi Fi system the L7 system and the EPS= 16 speakers, digital amp Hint: look inboard of the mirrors at the A pillar...tweeters? Yes & Center speaker in Dash: Yes? AND See through speaker grilles with yellow speaker cones --> Individual Audio This system is a 2000 dollar option are you sure that is what you have? Its built of the same architecture as the L7 with better components. The same rules apply to modifying it as the L7 . Most all the answers to the questions you are asking are contained in this thread. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641323 Last edited by ctuna; 05-09-2014 at 09:27 PM..
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05-09-2014, 09:32 PM	#11
JazStar740 Private First Class 11 Rep 172 Posts Drives: 2011 E93 335is/1994 E32 740iL Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Wetumpka, AL iTrader: (0)	Just a question..... Why would you spend the money for a surround sound processor (Alpine PXA-H800) and delete your center channel? Just looking to get reasoning behind this, I used the Alpine PXA-H701 in one of my previous system setups where I hated to set it up with a phantom center but it was and amazing sounding device. __________________ 2011 E93 335is / BSM / Coral Red / 6MT / NAV / HK L7 / BSW Stage One / SWS8's 1994 E32 740iL / Black / Black 2008 E85 Z4 / Stratus Grey / Dream Red SOLD / 2006 E90 325i / Jet Black / Black SOLD / 2001 E53 X5 / Silver / Grey SOLD
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05-09-2014, 10:56 PM	#13
ctuna Lieutenant General 1911 Rep 13,103 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	Maybe you should consider these http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=980746
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05-22-2014, 03:34 PM	#16
///Mangler Captain 334 Rep 817 Posts Drives: E30 M3 Darth Vader Trackcar Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: SEC iTrader: (1) Garage List 2000 E39 M5 [9.00]	I got everything ready to go and just have a couple questions before I hook everything up and troubleshoot for an hour. So the MOST connector that is going into the EPS amp can be plugged into the DA-2 directly? SO.... HU MOST-bus>DA-2>Helix>600/6>speakers. Just want to make sure I don't need to intercept the most bus anywhere else for the DA-2. Anyone know the part numbers for the battery distribution block input connectors? I would rather use that than go to the post. For now I will just be using the 600/6 to the stock speakers and new MB quart undersea subs and a 10w3 in the trunk. T
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